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Pluna AirlinesThis forum post has messages dated from 07/30/09 through 05/04/10, please be sure to read all the messages. If you feel it is old or outdated, please follow up with a question or comment and someone may be able to update it, or reply with newer information if you have it.
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| Pluna Airlines I read in El Espectador the other day that Pluna airlines has made its first profit since 1999!!Honestly sometimes I wonder what is the point?! Every one of their flights arrives and departs late, sometimes they just cancel flights and I've heard nothing but bad reviews! Has anyone EVER had a good experience with Pluna? |
| Yes! I flew from Puerto Alegra, Brazil to Montevideo. But that was part of a package. I've never had any luck with their website... it tells me *I* made an ERROR... because I had no idea what days they offers flights and they didn't offer that information on their website. Their website also listed destinations that they don't fly to, or accept reservations for. So, before they (or you) need to worry about whether they are on schedule... they need to worry about how to actually get your reservation. |
Comment #208/11/09 19:40Rural east Colonia departmento | I miss Pluna flying to Madrid. In the days when they operated the service Iberia on-line prices were aimed to undercut Pluna. Now that there isn't competition on the route, Iberia's prices have risen considerably. |
| I flew the Pluna/Iberia route from Madrid when I first moved here in October 08 and it was one of the worst flights I've ever taken...and it wasn't cheap either!!! The Iberia staff were rude, borderline horrible in fact! The plane was old, smelly and uncomfortable and the food was really bad. I just flew TAM from Montevideo to Sao Paolo and British Airways to London and the difference was incredible, it was fantastic! They were actually friendly, welcomind and helpful. Then again, I think with airlines it can always depend on the day, the people you encounter and what kind of day they're having! |
Comment #408/13/09 19:17Rural east Colonia departmento | For service I like TAM and LAN but my usual European destination is Barcelona so for a swift connection, it pays to use Iberia. When last I flew (back in June) return tickets to Barca were half the price from Bs As so I took the Buquebus ferry, used a local taxi to the airport and booked a remise for the return journey to avoid the local airport pirates. Its a less pleasant experience but for a net saving of 400 U$S, I'll put up with a bit of suffering :-) I hear that BQB have applied for air routes from MVD to MAD so I lve in hope of a competitor for Iberia on that route. What we really need is a long haul Ryanair to Colonia :-) |
| what is the pluna airline address and phone number in cairo egypt |
| "Travel"
What are the options for going between Buenos Aires and Uruguay? Plane, bus, train? What is the distance between Montevideo and BA? |
| "Renewing Visas and Getting to Buenos Aires"
Hey Bob, I think Klarita pretty much summed it up there. The plane journey is very short but then again it will be more expensive and you have to get out to the airport which is a fairly long taxi ride, and then there's the taxi ride in BA from city to the airport...and then there's all time it takes to check in, go through security, board etc - I'm a much bigger fan of the bus and ferry combination, or ferry direct from MVD to BA. In this article I outlined all the ways to do the river crossing between Montevideo and Buenos Aires: |
| "PLUNA"
Elaine, The service of the line to Madrid use to be terrible according to what I've heard (I never used it). But my experience with the regional flights is different. I use it mainly between Buenos Aires and Montevideo and never experience delays. The planes are too little, they have very small cabin space for passengers and hand luggage, but they are brand new. The planes is one of the reasons why PLUNA is starting to make proffit. The new Bombardiers are very economic in the short distances. Donatus, There's no PLUNA office in Cairo. It's a small regional airline. Tgbob, Distance is aprox 250Km. There are many options including plane, bus, ferry, and other ships. The cheapeast two are the direct bus trip (beware, it's a long bus trip, cause the bridges used are far north from MVD and BUE, so it's a 800-900Km trip; and a ship crossing from Tigre (north of Buenos Aires, to Carmelo in Uruguay), and then bus to MVD. The more expensive are the plane: half an hour fight; and the fast direct ferry (2 and a half hours). And there's an intermidate priced trip with ferry from BUE to Colonia (fast 1 hour; slow 2 hours), and then bus to MVD (plus 2 and a half hours). |
| ""PLUNA -- what's the point?""
I had no choice but to take a PLUNA flight from Bs. As. to Mvd. last year. I had not travelled with PLUNA for many years. The first thing that shocked me was the exhorbitant amount I had to pay for a one-way ticket, considering it's a 20 minute flight: U$200+ not including taxes, and other fees. The plane was new but the seats were not exactly comfortable. The onboard "service" was non-existent. They didn't even offer a glass of water...So, I am actually surprised that the airline is now making a profit and I do wish them well. However, my personal philosophy is that the state should not be involved in this enterprise at all. In my opinion, Uruguay should divest itself from this venture and let private, commmercial operators do what they do best. I suspect the reason PLUNA exists is a combination of national pride and the fact that too many feathers would be ruffled if they simply let go of it. |
| "PLUNA - What's the point."
The price of the flight BUE-MVD is too high, and there will continue to be until there's enough competition. Before privatization, Aerolineas Argentinas and PLUNA used to held a shared monopolium of this route and prices where fixed at their will. The market is now being opened, and probably there will be other airlines competing soon (BQB is just waiting for the argentinean permition, for example). The State has less than 20% of the stocks of PLUNA. The rest is private, the operation is completely private. PLUNA had to be saved by the State when it almost closed a few years ago after the failure of VARIG the brazilian airline that bought PLUNA before the current owners. But it is now operated by private owners and the efficency or inefficency of it is due to their administration. The State simply collects its share of the beneffits. I followed the discussion at the moment of the company's rescue, cause we tax-payers have to put money to save PLUNA before the State could sell it again to private capitals. There was no "national pride" involved at all; I don't think things are done that way. The discussion was about the beneffits and costs of keeping a national airline at all. The reasons explained by the supporters of PLUNA was that a national airline is needed to asure there will be routes to Uruguay as needed by the Tourism industry, and the generation of more labor ports in logistic services. I personally think it payed quite well the investment, cause after the problems of the regional airlines (specially Aerolineas Argentinas and Varig), if it weren't for PLUNA, we would have been cut from airline connections from the region for long periods (AA, for example, has just one or two flights a day from BUE to MVD, while the requirement is from 6 to 10 flights depending on the moment of the year). During long periods, we were also cut from the other vital connection to Sao Paulo, except for PLUNA. PLUNA is now developing also a net from MVD and Punta del Este to secondary cities as Rosario, Cordoba, Porto Alegre, Florianopolis, Asunción, or Curitiba. If it weren't for this activity, which feeds long distance connections of Iberia, American, United, etc.., the new Carrasco Airport haden't be built. So, considering these decisions are made for "national pride", is underestimating the reasons why the decision makers do things. All the bells have to be heard. |
| ""PLUNA -- What's the point?""
I'm glad to hear that the Uruguayan state reduced its share of stock in PLUNA to 20%. I'd be even happier if they had 0%. It is my belief that the state should have no business running an airline. I am convinced that private (uruguayan or foreign) capital is better suited to do that. I am confident BQB will prove this to be true. |
| "Is a state airline needed?"
"I'm glad to hear that the Uruguayan state reduced its share of stock in PLUNA to 20%. I'd be even happier if they had 0%. It is my belief that the state should have no business running an airline"That sounds like the American side of you coming out there Dan! and you're probably right. Things usually are more efficient and successful when run privately. However there must be a margin for profit in order for a foreign private body to be interested, and so I would assume that up to now there was very little chance of that in Uruguay. I assume that had it not been for the state-run airline there may have been no airline at all, as is often the case for small countries. |
| ""Is a state airline needed?""
I assure you that there are plenty of Uruguayans who want the state to become trimmer and more efficient, and they're represented in the entire political spectrum. The lack of interest from foreign investors may or may not be true. I honestly don't know. But the way I see it, even if there was no interest at all, there is a market to be served, and commercial airlines have always been present in Uruguay. So I see no point whatsoever in a state with few resources to spare becoming involved in running an airline. As you accurately pointed out, there are many small countries that have no state-run airline at all. |
| "State run Airline"
Why one earth does a large state or a small state need a state-run airline anyhow?If such an enterprise has the likelihood of being profitable then business will run one. If it is not likely to be profitable, why should any state especially a small one financing a dog? It seems unlikely that the citizens of any small state would be harmed by the lack of an airline. Are there any small states without state-run airlines that lack international flights? |
| "State owned or not - I."
Expat's got some of the reasons why. Dan is right too, but more right if we were the US... Let me explain this a little more (Expat, be patient! hahaha). In the US it is wise to privatize almost everything. Most of the companies are based on the US, take the US interests under consideration (in some cases they even subordinate some of their commercial policies to the "national interest" marked by the goverment); and in anyway the profit they make returns to be invested in the US or goes to stock owners in the US where the money recycles. This is how the systems works, and it works fine giving proffit, servicing the society efficently, and recycling richness to the country. Now, what happens in little countries as Uruguay? The sad true is that in some industries, where a lot of capital is needed, and where "economies of scale" (in production, market access or prices seting) are of most importance to succeed, there's no national company to operate successfuly in the market, except the foreing corporations. In some cases, this is good, cause even if proffits goes away, they still create labor posts, pay taxes, and start new productions for exports. In other cases, they compete for the internal market or displace national companies in traditional productions, and this is not so beneficial to the country (or at least you have to make some more in depth analysis to find out). In many cases, when an international corporation displaces a national corporation, the better payed posts (technical design, estrategic management, etc.), goes away to the headquarters or to other bigger regional centers as Buenos Aires, or Sao Paulo). The true is that in Uruguay, the only one corporation strong enough to compete, with sufficient financial and resource "shoulders" is the State. That's why the State is still present in Uruguay in some areas as communications, energy, petroleum, banking. Of course, in other areas of the economy, small enterprises can do perfectly well. There could be uruguayan startups in Software, for example, that can fight well without a corporate umbrella, compete well, get proffit, and create qualiffied labor posts in Uruguay. |
| "State owned or not - II."
Of course, many of us don't find PLUNA is in the cathegory of the activities that the State should be involved in. Anyway, as I say, the existence of PLUNA is important for Uruguay to support many other activities of private uruguayan businesses. And if it hadn't been for the State, It would have been lost after the first privatization failed with the failure of VARIG. So, Dan is right in this case, and maybe, who knows, the State sells its 20%. However, I wouldn't do it yet cause PLUNA is still in debtp with us, so I want my representant's eyes in its directory...So, again. In theory Dan is right. But the theory works better in big countries as the US, and not so "purely" in very small countries as Uruguay. Kind of... Uruguay's size is not that right, so it sometimes have to do some not so right things so keep alive. Many people in Uruguay think that the State should sell all its commercial enterprises. In fact, that was an idea that was in the top of the wave in the region in the 90's. It lead to many evident failures in neighbour countries when the privatizations were done in a very "ideological" and not "intelligent" way. Uruguay stayed apart from that wave because still more people in Uruguay thought, and still thinks, the State is still usefull in some activities. But this is a discussion permantly open. And it changes from time to time. PLUNA seems to be a good candidate for selling the rest of the stocks in the future. Other enterprises like UTE, ANTEL, ANCAP, and the BROU, will probably remain under the State ownership until Uruguay decides to integrate as a brasilean or argentinean province... :) Exptat! You cannot complain now! I did it in just two posts!!! |
| "state owned = nation building"
Almost always, the reason for state run enterprise is that the private sector won't do it or can't make a profit based on the operating model available. Think of postal service. In most countries, it's operated by the state. It's a money maker in the populated corridors and makes less money or costs money serving remoter areas. In other cases, it is only the state that can come up with the kind of money to start up such an enterprise - telegraph and railways in the 1800s, telephones and electrical energy etc. in the 1900s.In many countries, if it weren't for their national air carrier, there are lots of places in their country that would have no air service at all. Here in Canada, if it weren't for air service, most northern communities would be virtually isolated except by sea and only accessible in the high summer. Some, simply would have no link to the outside world other than over land. Be carefull when making comparisons, though. In the early years, American air flights were subsidised to carry mail within the USA. It gave the aviation industry the capital imput to make it a big industry. Carrying mail required regular flights and regular flights could compete with regular passenger rail. Even today, the American aviation industry is subsidesed through the military. Another consideration is that the air industry is always one way of having the latest in technology even if you're not building the planes in your own country, all the service around them creates work and brings in innovative technology. The exploration of space is an offshoot of the aviation industry, after all. In my mind, there seems to be lots of reasons why Uruguay would want to have its own airline and every interest in not becoming a province of one of its neighbours. On the investment side, the joke is: "How do you turn a billion dollars into a million dollars? Buy an airline!" It's not just in Uruguay that it's hard to make a profit on an airline. The profitable examples cited - Ryanair etc. - only exist where population density in the areas served make them cost efficient. |
| "Domestic vs International Air Fights"
I think Pluna flies only between Uruguay and other countries. 4 years ago there was supposedly a way to fly domestically from MVD to Salto. The flight had 1 stop and was US$80 per segment... ie: US$160 each way.Compared to a bus at about $12 each way... A postal service is a true need of people and isn't offered by others as you describe things. In Uruguay without Pluna, no one is left without being able to fly in or out of the country. So, what exactly is the state need, or the citizen's need for the airline? I don't see that your arguments as they relate to Canada, the space program, links to the outside world, etc apply to Uruguay. |
| "Domestic vs International air flights."
I undestand that Bik just commented about the domestic connections in Canada as an example. He was trying to tell us that circumstances and not only general rules are to be considered. In Uruguay (a small country with relative good roads, and completely accessable by land), domestic flights cannot compete with bus lines. However, for Uruguay a "sovereign" (so to speak) link with the rest of the Region and the World is vital. PLUNA is needed for that, and it was good that the state saved it when it was near to dissapear. Now, it is practically a private company, and it is starting to show proffit and then prove its viability. And that proves that the timely intervention of the State was successful.Bik also pointed out how the State in other countries intervenes under the cover to back some private industries. Sometimes, the speach is one thing, and the reality another different thing. Chile, for example, is minded as a successful neo-liberal experiment. However, while there was a lot of liberalization to start a new private economy, the State kept Chile's main income (copper) under its ownership. When the Chilean transformation begined copper meant 80% of their income, and nobody between the so called "Chicago Boys" in Chile thought to privatize copper. Today, depending on the year, and after decades of growth, copper production accounts for 60% of Chilean income, and... It's still almost all State owned! |
Comment #2004/08/10 18:43Rural east Colonia departmento | "Post and flying"
As a man who lacks a postal service altogether and who cannot even get a PO box because there aren't any outside the bigger cities, I'd much sooner see state money spent on a universal postal service than on a subsidized state flag carrier. The airline industry is a high risk game and is better left to gamblers who know what they're doing IMV. I took my sister to the new Carrasco airport today. While it certainly is a fine structure I couldn't help feeling that all that expenditure on national aggrandizement might have been better directed at building some better social housing for poor people. The old airport may have looked to be a touch dated but it served its purpose well and even offered non-McDonald's catering. :-) |
| "the need of a national carrier"
You're right Patrick, likely the size of Uruguay doesn't justify having an aeroport anywhere but Montevideo and no one is left isolated because their town doesn't have one. Canada, on the contrary, is all about vast spaces (and not just between my ears) that have been the challenge to nation building. One might argue that we could have simply become part of the USA, something we've spent 400 years vigorously avoiding, and, besides, who says they would want us. And if we Canadians think we have communication problems now, imagine being the northern extension of a populous country ... Siberia comes to mind. On the other hand, if Uruguay had no airline of its own, Uruguayans couldn't count on foreign carriers to be always at their service. Imagine, for the sake of this argument, that during a contentious issue with a neighbour, like there is with Argentina at present, it would be easy for the Argentine government to prohibit its airlines from flying in and out of Montevideo just to have leverage in the dispute. One could argue that airflight isn't a necessity and the same could be said of a lot of things that we can't seem to live without in the 21st century but I don't see a plausible return to a life that immitates that which the Mennonites lead. And if Uruguay, by not having its own airline, relied upon foreign companies to provide service, then it is also those foreign companies who could set the standards for Uruguayans that may not meet Uruguayan notions of safety etc., or to satisfy Uruguayan internal needs such as more frequent flights according to the tourist seasons. It wouldn't be hard to imagine, either, a foreign carrier favouring the hiring of their own nationals to do jobs that Uruguayans could do. Despite the suggestions of the Costa Rican president, the abandonnement of Uruguayan armed forces, they still exist and an airforce is an essential part of that. Now's your chance to blow my argument all to Hell by telling me Uruguay has no airforce (seriously, I am only assuming there is one). All sorts of exchanges go on between civil and defense aviation: training of pilots, maintenance of alternative aeroports etc.. The wonderfull Interstate highway system of the USA exists, in part, so that there can be all sorts of emergency landing strips (have you wondered why there aren't many overpasses on the interstate?). Whether or not Uruguay has space aspirations is moot, the cutting edge of technology comes, in large, from the innovations made in the domain. OK, I concede that Tang orange juice wasn't a giant step for mankind but other things have come out of the space race that have made life easier. Why shouldn't Uruguayans participate in that? |
| "Airlines - Post Office "
Bik - Not to be considered a Province of one of it's Neighbours is a Uruguayan goal for many years and I think they are on the way to doing that.The Post Office in the United States still use the Airlines to transport Mail, that helps the Airlines to lower the cost of running their Business. Because of 9/11 - The Post Office divided the Country in a 1-2-3 day delivery area and are using Trucks more than Airplanes for their State to State delivery. About State Government running business I think that after what happened here in the last two years, it should be a goal of this Administration to increase regulations to essential participants in the USA Economy. When Oil prices went sky high I expected Uruguay to have big economic problems and it was a happy surprise when Uruguay survived the biggest crisis in my lifetime with a 3 1/2% growth increase with the State run Ancap running the Oil business, while in the United States the for profit Oil Companies made unbelievable profits at the cost of the people and putting the USA economy on the verge of collapse. To Patrick the Post Office because of the Internet lost 20% volume in the last 2 years and predict 35% in the next 2 years, maybe it's better for Uruguay to not even try to improve the Post Office and let the business disappear.(just joking) I worked in the Telegraph of Uruguay and look what happened with their Business. Nice to read from you again Bik. |
Comment #2304/08/10 23:04Rural east Colonia departmento | "Correos"
"To Patrick the Post Office because of the Internet lost 20% volume in the last 2 years and predict 35% in the next 2 years, maybe it's better for Uruguay to not even try to improve the Post Office and let the business disappear.(just joking)" I don't know if its always been awful but I fear that you aren't joking. Postal deliveries are to cities only and IME the chances of my mail arriving at a friend's house in Colonia Valdense (my postal address) are about 60/40 in favour. So uncertain are delivery services here that I'm having to visit Bs As in person next week to collect my renewed passport as neither I not my embassy trust the correos or private delivery companies not to lose or steal it. The main correos in Missiones MVD is a fine old building and is worth a visit. On the 6 occasions when I've been there to send important letters I've only seen 2 other customers amidst the hoard of funcionarios so service is instant. OTOH the correos customs office next door is a very busy place :-) |
| "The Uruguayan Post Office, etc."
In my experience, when I was a kid and a teenager living in Uruguay, I never heard any serious complaints about the Post Office. But then while living in the US I had some bad experiences sending packages that arrived opened before gettting to the intended recipient. I also had to stop sending greeting cards with cash, which I used to do regularly (I know, it's silly to do this!), because they just never arrived to their destination. And then I started reading and hearing from people that the Uruguayan Post Office was in decline, and could not be relied upon. The main reason: corruption of all sorts, similar to that people were experiencing with the Customs (Aduanas). I know that in recent years, efforts have been made to remedy this. I wish the state of Uruguay (regardless of what political party is in office) good luck in reforming both the Post and Customs Offices. |
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