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Forum Post
03/30/09 04:22
Milwaukee, WI

Weather

Thank author of this post/commentI've spent hours reading posts. This forum has been excellent for obtaining information on travel or living in Uruguay. Prior to this forum I had Panama first on my list for early retirement. They have a great pensionado program without age restrictions. They also have a low cost of living. However, it appears that is not the case in Panama City which is their major metropolian area. I love European architecture and history. There is not as much in Central America as in South America. Montevideo has one of the lowest cost of living in the world. Getting a vehicle in Panama is easier though. So weighing pros and cons (since you can't have it all) I researched monthly average temperatures in Uruguay, but had conflicting reports. I realize it can change rapidly. It appears your winter day temperatures are around 50-60 degrees and your winter lows are around typically in the 40's. What east coast US city could you compare it to?

Thank you to all of you for imparting your wisdom. Lee from Pocitos, a special thank you. You're posts have been not only plentiful, but informative. I look forward to talking to all of you as my research continues in forum and country.......


Comment #1
03/31/09 07:06
Pocitos
Thank author of this post/comment"Montevideo has one of the lowest cost of living in the world."

What do you base that on? It is something that seems to be often repeated.

Before living in Montevideo, I lived in Costa Rica and have travel in many South American Countries and recently spent a month in Asia.

With respect to food, real estate (renting or buying), electronics (ie: TVs, Computers), I don't see that Montevideo would be near the bottom of the list for prices.

It was easy to find lunch for a buck or two in the Philippines. It's hard to find lunch for $8 here. When I got here from Costa Rica it seemed that lunch would cost 2-3x. HOWEVER, I think the lunch you get here is much better than both of those places.

So, the actual value may well be better, but the price is not the lowest.

If you live in Montevideo, I can't imagine wanting a car. If you live away from Montevideo a car may be an issue. I don't think it is hard to get a car here, just expensive. There are plenty of dealers and used cars for sale. Importing one is different story I suspect.

Your temp ranges are probably in the ballpark, but you need to add a usual windy condition to that and a big variance in heating systems... from none to very good. It is NOT like in the Northern US where any house or apartment will have heat that keeps the place at a "reasonable" temp all winter.

I don't find the outside temps to be an issue... its the indoor temps that can be difficult.


Comment #2
04/02/09 04:42
Milwaukee, WI
Thank author of this post/commentMercer's 2008/2009 list of the best cities to live in the world. A couple South American cities made the list. I believe Buenos Aires was one of them. Many publications such as CNNMoney, Newsweek, and various other publications take various factors such as cost of living, quality of life, safety/crime, etcetera from Mercers to come up with their own reports. The cities vary slightly if at all.

Internation Living (IL) uses a lot of the same factors to come up with their own list. They are heavily promoting Equador, Uruguay, and Panama. A lot of other reports from smaller publications make their own list based on information from IL. Not by any means am I recommending IL. I received their free daily postcards for awhile a couple of year ago. Because I'm coming close to making the move, I thought I'd compare all of my research to what they had. I signed up for the free postcards again. It's all hype like the "as seen on TV" products. When they made an offer for several free "special reports" with a discounted subscription rate, I decided to try. If for any reason I wasn't satisfied, I could cancel at anytime and keep the reports. With this offer I also was able to have access to the special members only section which gave me access to their archives. My very first time on line I was so ticked off. They gave very little factual information. It was more of the same hype. They'd tease with a little more information. If you wanted to know more than you have to purchase the next level. I was ready to cancel. I told myself I'd wait to see what the actual magazine was like. Well I've received several more reports plus two months worth of magazines. Still more of the same. I know people research a lot, hopefully they can now make a more informed decision.

Thank you for the additional information. Are the buildings not weatherproofed properly? I'd expect it from older buildings. Could that possibly be why the units do not seem adequate? Or is it because the units are not big enough for the size?

Is there a difference in the quality of goods that you purchase in Central and South America compared to North America and Europe? I have read several comments in various places that state this is a problem.

What did you like about Costa Rica? It is also supposed to be one of the best places to retire. What are the biggest differences between Costa Rica and Uruguay? I'm wondering when you lived in Costa Rica if you ever slippe. south into Panama. If you did, what did you think?

I apologize for the length. Your question provided the opportunity to inform people about IL. Thank you again!


Comment #3
04/02/09 05:18
Pocitos
Thank author of this post/commentThere are various kinds of heat you find. In the apartment buildings:

Central Losa (this is a central boiler that pipes hot water through pipes in the floor/ceiling). My experience in an older building with it was that the inside was always comfortable. In a newer building it was not warming enough to sit comfortably at a computer and work.

I have returned to an older building and when the owner of the apartment saw I had a propane powered heating... he said I would definitely NOT be needing it.

Individual Losa. This would be the same system but each apartment would have an individual (usually gas) powered boiler.

Radiators. These could be central or individually heated.

"Euro cable", also referred to in various other forums "individual" heating. This is a little similar to the "Losa". Except electric cables are in the floor surface. With losa there are water pipes in the cement floor structure.

The losa can take a good 24+ hours to warm up when it is first turned on. It builds up a tremendous thermal mass that keeps you warm (rather than heating the air). The electric cables work on the same theory, but take about 3 hours to warm up the surface of the floor so there it much less thermal mass.

The electric cable systems are also zoned, so you just turn on the area you want. I've seen two separate heating zones in a small living room.

When I ask the cost of the electricity, the answer is always that it is inexpensive and you get cheaper electricity at night. First, I want the heat during the day as I enjoy sleeping in a cool environment. Second, I don't think the price will come anywhere close to the central losa systems if you heat your apartment comparably. ie: if you don't use the heat, then it is cheap.

I also don't think that for example, heating one half of your living room will result in a comfortable environment.

Electric panel heat. Electric panels attached to the walls like radiators. The advantage is these heat up the air rapidly. So it warm a spot where you are sitting or the bathroom they are probably ok, but not to make a whole apartment comfortable.

The first apartment I lived in had the electric panel heat. The one in the bedroom was broken. The one in the bathroom worked, but I almost never used it. There was no others.

Split units. Electric heating/air conditioning. This may be the best electric heating option as they usually have a thermostat and fan.

No heat. Many apartments (even in Pocitos) simply have no heat. That leaves you to bundle up, buy electric space heats, or propane. I'd opt for the propane.

Houses. The houses seem to be more likely not to have a heating system (except maybe a fireplace), and if they have one, it will be the radiators, electric panels or split units.

You might find that some (many?) Uruguayans don't use the heating system if it is available. You might also find that the apartment buildings with central heat and a large number of older people resident will provide the best heat.

Weather proofing can be an issue as well.

Sometimes it seem that old junk is peddled down here too. But I've bought my share of junk in the USA too. With computer stuff just make sure your buying current technology and not 2 or 3 year old stuff. Ie: if 1gb camera memories are current, don't buy 128mb chips here.

You can't compare Costa Rica and Uruguay. I don't think you can compare any Latin American countries. They all have their unique cultures, weather, etc.

My opinion on IL is they are WAY OFF BASE and way overboard on hyping all kinds of places as "CHEAP".. rather than hyping them for the reasons each individual place should be hyped. They need to get out of the walmart mentality.


Comment #4
04/02/09 17:15
Rural east Colonia departmento
Thank author of this post/commentI'd agree about the ROU not being a cheap place to live when compared with some other South American countries. Fluctuations in exchange rates seem to cause it to become cheaper and more expensive in cycles.

Down here away from MVD most housing is built to standards way below those you'd find in Europe and North America. Some of the better 19th century buildings offer thick solid walls and high ceilings but the more modern stuff is mostly of cavity wall brick and concrete construction without much in the way of insulation. When you couple this lack with the violent swings in temperature and humidity you can see why many Uruguayan houses suffer from condensation and dampness problems.

I've been repairing and extending an old farmhouse for the last 2 years (things move s...l...o...w...l...y here) and have annoyed my constructors many times with my insistence on "ridiculous" amounts of insulation where ridiculous means half as much as UK regulations demand :-)

In the country, heating is mostly done with big open fireplaces either of brick/stone or steel. The reason for these is the cheapness of large-sized logs. In MVD firewood is much more expensive but comes in smaller sizes so you see more in the way of enclosed woodburning stoves.

The other advantages of the big open fire is in combating the dampness which can get especially bad during periods of cold humidity as well as being ideal for cooking your asado. :-)

I have installed a "split" air conditioners in bedrooms and one sitting room. During the last two summers I've only used them in cooling mode for 10 days or so but in heating mode, they are several times more efficient than conventional electric heating so useful for a quick blast to make getting up on a winter's morning more agreeable. They also have a dehumidification mode useful in times of warm humidity.

Patrick.


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