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Investing in Ciudad Vieja ?This forum post has messages dated from 05/05/10 through 01/12/12, please be sure to read all the messages. If you feel it is old or outdated, please follow up with a question or comment and someone may be able to update it, or reply with newer information if you have it.
| Investing in Ciudad Vieja ? Is the Ciudad Vieja a good place to invest?.Is there any project from Private/Government to invest in the improvement of this area, Lights, security etc?. |
| "Ciudad Vieja"
There is an ongoing plan from the city government to improve the Ciudad Vieja, based mainly on converting some streets into pedestrian streets. This has resulted in a great improvement throughout the last ten years, but mostly restricted to those streets. There's also a small Anything on Sarandí is probably a good investment. Same goes to Bacacay and a few other places. But the change is slow, and at least at the moment is focused on commerce rather than living. At night even Sarandí is not the nicest place. But that will probably change as the project progresses. In short, I would say there are lots of good oportunities for investment in the Ciudad Vieja, but the exact location and building use will be key factors to consider. |
| "Huge possibility"
For many years the Ciudad Vieja was a mix of Red light district and Commercial area in between (during the day).I find it critical for the City to improve this area and it should be a priority. Three years ago I noticed that the area that needed most improvement was after the beginning (Plaza Independencia) and before el Mercado del Puerto. It was like a nobody land and probably not safe. With Tourism (Cruises) increasing in big numbers, Montevideo needs to create a Corridor for the foreigners just like in many others Countries. In Puerto Rico and Panama their governments are trying to improve their old cities so rich in architecture. I'm surprised that more is not done, when rehabilitating that area will bring back the Centro to Montevideo. Thank you Ariel I'll be checking for Real Estate in this area, because the possibilities are huge and I still have hope in Uruguay's future. |
| "Ciudad Vieja."
There are two centers of development in the two ends of the Ciudad Vieja. One is Plaza Independencia. With the re-cycling of the Solis, the new SODRE and the Presidency in the (finally completed!) Torre Ejecutiva, there's a revitalization of the area. The Plaza Matriz a couple of blocks from there is now being refurbished. The Mercado del Puerto is the other center of development. There is a new touristic area there with art shops, the Museo del Carnaval, etc.. The nearby big old building of the Hotel Nacional was bought by the Tsakos group and is undertaking works to stop the ruin process. Tsakos hasn't disclosured yet what it will do with it. Between these to points, the pedestrial Perez Castellanos and Sarandi streets form an axis in which slowly show new restoration works. Also the Rambla in front of the Port show a lot of new restoration works. The process is slow cause it's been driven by private owners only with some tax stimulation from the IMM; but it is a steady process. The Finaltial district between Plaza Matriz and Plaza Zabala is in very good shape too, though you may not found good opportunities there to buy cheap. The only problem with the Ciudad Vieja is that there's still some areas of very poor population occupying very deteriorated old houses. These parts are mostly from the Hotel Nacional south. And near the Port north of Plaza Independencia. Investors buying there may be able to make good business, but with more risk and longer terms. |
| "Ciudad Vieja"
Thank you Alberto as always. I really see a lot of opportunities and future in the Ciudad Vieja. My only concern is that I don't see a serious interest or understanding from the Intendencia or the Ministerio of Tourism about how important it can be to invest heavily in that area with better lighting, side walks and top security.If the City invests, the investor will follow, but the City should go first. In every Country or Island that I had the opportunity to visit, you don't observe bad areas, everything is nice (but we know better) they have created a Corridor for the Tourist and why not. Right now I don't see the Tourist arriving in Ships going home wishing to comeback to Uruguay soon. Looking at numbers from the Newspapers they spend an average 25 Dollars per person during the stay. We're letting money fly away just because we don't get it. What people can find in Ciudad Vieja will be treasured somewhere else. |
| "Ciudad Vieja investments."
"In every Country or Island that I had the opportunity to visit, you don't observe bad areas, everything is nice..."Swisserland, Jersey and the Bermudas? Maybe we should force the poor out of the Ciudad Vieja and send them where they are not seen? Hummm... "(but we know better) they have created a Corridor for the Tourist and why not." I don't think you've got it. It isn't a "corridor" like a secured zone for tourists... About investment, I don't know why you think the State is not investing. Most of the new investments I mentioned are made by the State. (SODRE, the Torre Ejecutiva, the pedestrian streets, the refurbishing of the Plaza Zabala, some other small plazas of the area... The tax cuttings for the ones that invest in recicling are also a sort of State investment, and the privates are following. What the State cannot do is to take the place of the private investors or push them. And where did you got your numbers of cruisers spending from? 25 dollars is probably just one lunch... |
| "Hoping and Wishing -"
First - I can be wrong but I would never intentionally put Uruguay or it's people down. It's not criticism it's HOPING and WISHING.Now talking about poor people maybe I can teach a thing or two and it's not because I see poor on the other side of town and I feel bad. You and many others probably would not even venture to Canelones with the money that I brought to the United States. /Maybe we should force the poor out of the Ciudad Vieja and send them where they are not seen?/ That happened to my Parents in your old neighborhood, I was born in Benito Blanco and Br.Espana and that old House that was my home for 7 years, was to be demolished to build Apartments and we moved to La Comercial and that was OK it's part of life and the so called progress. When I said Corridor I mean going around the so called poor area with the deteriorated old houses called (BY YOU)the only problem with the Ciudad Vieja. I'm very happy to hear about all the improvements. The new Sodre (I can't wait to visit, Dan posted some nice pictures) I already enjoyed the Solis and the Plaza Matriz (Feria) nice Restaurants in Sarandi and El Mercado. The only thing I WISH and HOPE is, the best Lighting possible, Great pedestrian and side walks and the best security in ALL Ciudad Vieja. If you build it they will come and I'll be one of them. Cruiser spending 25 Dollars a person - I got that from El Pais and Teledoce from the mouth of the Minister of Tourism. No doubt that I thought that amount was to small. But when they are being dropped in the Port around 9 am they already had Breakfast and they know that Dinner is waiting around 7pm. Maybe the reason for that low number is because they are counting the total amount of passengers that arrive with the Ship but they do not all leave the Ship for different reasons. If I'm guilty of something , maybe it's being impatient and want Uruguay to progress fast. But please don't doubt my commitment. |
| "Reply"
Jorge, Let me put again your complete phrase: "In every Country or Island that I had the opportunity to visit, you don't observe bad areas, everything is nice (but we know better) they have created a Corridor for the Tourist and why not." Apart than referring to small touristic islands or developed countries, where you efectively don't observe "bad areas" and where "everything is nice", is easy to conclude that you wouldn't like to see the poor areas of the Ciudad Vieja. And that's OK, but very difficult to solve, unless you move the poor people to other areas. Of course, the Intendencia or the Goverment won't do that whatever was the effect on the Tourism. After all we are back in Democracy and people is more important than businesses. The process of enhancing Ciudad Vieja without displacing its current inhabitants is slow and should be done with care. Interventions are being made, and there are others, as directing loans for creating cooperative buildings, for the not so rich, so they stay in the area. What your family may have experienced in Pocitos is something we don't want to be repeated in Ciudad Vieja: People abandoning their original neighbourhood because of the preasure of the market on the prices. Though in the long term that may still be the result of the recycling of the CV, cause many poor people there are even unable to join a cooperative. Of course, if you know my way of thinking, you should conclude that when I qualified as "bad" the poorer areas of the CV it was not because of the people in general, but because it hosts most of the delinquency of the area, and because of the deterioration of the buildings. I qualified it as "bas areas" from a real state viewpoint, which was in response to the original question. I don't doubt the El Pais could say each cruiser passenger spend 25 dollars as an average; it is typical from El Pais. I think you might be misstaken if you think that number has been confirmed by the Tourism Minister. The numbers of the Ministery are above 100 dollars per day. Just a Citytour would take more than your number. If a few go to a Bodega or to Punta del Este or have a couple of meals or by a leather jacket to get the average down to 25 dollars much more of them would walk, don't ever take a taxi and live the whole day with a bottle of water and crakers broght from the ship! Nonsense. Don't be impatient. Uruguay has been growing during the last years at rates unseen since the fourties. But most important. Don't expect everything would be done by the authorities. The money needed to rebuild the whole CV to make it a rinsed spot for tourism is so high that couldn't be justiffied in a country with much more urgent and important problems. Hey, we were neighbours! I used to live in Scoseria and Roque Graseras. Fortunately, my parents hose is still there. I now and then fantasize with the idea of knoking the door and ask the new owners to let me in. |
| "Properties for sale in Uruguay"
Find properties for sale in Uruguay in: www.uruprops.comYou will also find price statistics from the different areas of Montevideo to compare |
| "posting hint"
If you want to include a url, register and then you can add a link to your posts.Make interesting and informative posts. Not just one liners with a link. Make sure the links are directly related to your post and the topic of the discussion. Don't repeat the same reply to multiple messages. Don't cross languages. ie: link to your English page from here, and your Spanish page from the Spanish forum. There are not very many messages here and it is likely that all your posts will be read. No one wants to read the same thing over and over. Make sure to include a link in your profile, because then you can become an interesting and useful resource here and lots of people will check out your profile and link. Within a couple days there will be a free advertising service here. You'll be able to upload a banner ad (225 x 188 pixels, get them ready!) and your banner will be shown based on your participation. |
| "Ciudad Vieja"
I've never been to Uruguay nor Montevideo but I have had experience of living in cities where re-gentrification has taken place in delaborated neighbourhoods (Toronto's Cabbage-Town, Montreal's Vieux Montreal, Québec's Basse Ville etc.). Real estate prices may be enticing but what you want to suss out is whether or not there are conveniences and neighbours close to hand. It's one thing to have bought a bijou of an appartment but if the closest place to buy gorceries or do your laundry is blocks away, it mayn't have been such a great find after all. Or worse yet, you're constantly vandalised because the demographic balance between those who respect the law and those who break it hasn't reached a critical mass in favour of the former, as opposed to the latter. Deserted, uninhabited streets are a magnet for delinquent behaviour, no matter how civic minded the population of a city may be. And sadly, law enforcement is usually found where people are and not where crime is. |
| "I would buy on the tip"
prices have roughly risen 4-fold since pre-crisis (1999) from an indeed very low level. I should think that by now you have an ok chance/risk ratio, nothing outstanding any more.If I would buy I would buy on the tip, close to Escollera Sarandí, still nicely run down to allow for margin to improve and gentrificate I personally wouldn't want to deal with issues like ocupants, like being somebody's landlord, though. Nice forum by the way, I am glad I found it. Peer |
| "Property taxes"
Hello everyone, I am currently living in Panama City but will be moving to Uruguay sometimes this year maybe. I am very much interested in investing in Ciudad vieja and was wondering what is the situation now and the gouvernment's will to develop the area? I have a concern about property taxes as I don't quite understand what a non resident will have to pay. Also I have heard that areas like Palermo and maybe Cordon are free form taxes to make poeple invest there. Somebody knows about it? Any infos would be helpfull. Thank you. |
| "Gentrification"
I'm renting an apartment in an old building that was refurbished and the apartments sold. I met an Aussie couple that bought two of the units when the work began about 5 years ago and were able to keep an eye on things to keep edges from being cut, etc. The building is still not quite finished and is 2 years behind schedule. It's livable, just some of the details aren't finished.Anyway, they said that the government covered 30% of the cost of renovations, since it was a "historic" (i.e., old) building. I think they still do that. On the other hand, seeing how long it took, I'd rather buy a completely finished unit! TotalUruguay's free Ex-Pat guide has some interesting stories about buying and building here. |
| "the old train station"
What about the old train station? It is been so long that this building it is empty, and I think the architecture of this building it is amazing and it could be a great building for another mall where tourist who arrive to the country by ship would visit it since it is very close to the port. But for a strange reason the building stays there without a purpose. It is a pitty that such a nice places, became in a dangerous area just because the authorities are not involved.That would be a good invest don´t you think? I would invest if i'd have the money!! |
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