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Article: Moving to paradise with your eyes wide openThis forum post has messages dated from 11/12/10 through 11/17/10, please be sure to read all the messages. If you feel it is old or outdated, please follow up with a question or comment and someone may be able to update it, or reply with newer information if you have it.
| Article: Moving to paradise with your eyes wide open I am back in Hilo, Hawaii after spending 3 months in my birth country Uruguay. I went back to look at properties with the purpose of helping a customer here in the USA. to retire in La Paloma. To tell you the truth I was a little surprised of what I found. Let me share it with you.Read the complete article here: |
Comment #111/12/10 17:13Rural east Colonia departmento | "Why surprise?"
Whenever a well-off individual visits or moves to a foreign land, there will always be sharks around ready to take advantage and rip him/her off especially in the sort of places where foreigners tend to congregate. Its a world-wide phenomenon. In my view the dangers are best countered by seeking advice in forums like this one, by hiring appropriate professionals with sound reputations and by engaging the brain before taking major decisions. Some years ago a humorist erected a sign at Reus airport during the height of the Brit fashion for buying rural properties in Catalonia. The sign said "New arrivals are strongly advised not to deposit their brains at the left luggage office before leaving the airport." In my experience its less likely to happen in Uruguay than in most other places and here in the rural parts of Colonia departmento I suffer the opposite problem with everyone trying to "save me money" by urging me to buy cheap'n'nasty versions of whatever items I want :-) |
| "Relocation helper"
I hope I am wrong in being overly suspicious - but is this the "pot calling the kettle black"? Warning of the oh so sneaky Uruguayans (being one him/herself) and then offering his/her relocation services. Hmmmmmmm makes one wonder. |
| "Taken Advatange Of"
I think when someone feels taken advantage of it helps to share the specifics (but not names... we don't want to turn things into a mud slinging contest). The best way people can help protect themselves is by knowing the problem areas to keep an eye on.That said, the rip off here seem few and far between compared to other places. For sure keep your eyes open, but don't start thinking that everyone, every store, every interaction is predetermined to extract extra money from you. Expert Page: Quick Tips for Getting Settled in Uruguay |
| "Viveza Ciolla."
It was a wise way to sell his relocation services? Another evidence of the Viveza Criolla? Certainly, local help is always needed, but fortunately any local will be happy to help you for free if you just ask what's his/her opinion about the offer you've got. When you hire an Escribano to buy the property, he/she will certainly tell you if, according to his/her experience, you are being ripped with the price. And of course there's a lot of Real State agents that will made their business, but within reasonable boundaries. I don't think speaking Rio de la Plata's Spanish will help much. It sound funny to me. And I don't think that an Uruguayan having lived abroad for years is that helpfull about the commercial value of property here. |
Comment #511/13/10 19:02Rural east Colonia departmento | "Current prices"
" And I don't think that an Uruguayan having lived abroad for years is that helpfull about the commercial value of property here."I'd strongly agree as we seem to be well into a property price boom. Yesterday I had to visit Nueva Helvecia to buy more marker foam for my spraying machine. On my way in through the Bario Hoteles I noticed that Villa Rosa has been sold. I considered buying the place myself 4 years ago as its a very fine house set in 16 ha of prime land built by Swiss craftsmen at the time of the original settlement. Its big, is dripping with delightful architectural features but needs modern plumbing, drains, new electrics and some tender loving care. Four years ago it was for sale at 120k U$S but I'm told that it has now been sold for 540k U$S!!! It's hard enough for Uruguayo residents to keep abreast of current prices... let alone Uru-expats from Hilo :-) |
| "Crazy prices."
It's even amazing for those of us living here. This crazy prices are appearing more frequently while in some areas of Colonia and Maldonado, land use is shifting from the traditional rural small farm production to vacation or retirement settlement for well off people. |
Comment #711/15/10 09:26Rural east Colonia departmento | "Its not just the incomers"
3 years ago I bought a small tall'n'narrow three storey commercial premises near the cinema in Nueva Helvecia which I rent to my Spanish teacher for use as 3 small classrooms. I paid 12k U$S for it and was offered 2.5 times that sum for it last month.My vetinaria bought a detached 2 storey shop premises with gardens front and back on Av Armand Ugon (the main street) in Colonia Valdense in December 2008 for 29k U$S. She has just been offered 70k U$S for it. I thought that the European property boom of the early/mid 2000s was dramatic but it seems as nothing compared to what is happening here in east Colonia deptmento. Its very fortunate that I moved here 4 years ago when prices were so much lower than they are now. |
| "Some play with numbers"
Hi All, A 7 percent inflation will double prices in a decade, plus the prices were undervaluated 4-5 years ago due the 2002 crisis. Also the local currency appreciated agaist the USD. To measure the values of properties in USD will not give an accurate idea of the price change, but to measure them in Uruguayan pesos will. Property has increased and may be there is a sort of boom, but it is not as big as the increase in nominal USD would suggest.. I.e If something used to cost 100 in 2005, at constant prices after inflation, the price now it should be 126 pesos, if we assume 6% inflation per year.. Now lets take a look at its dollar value using the exchange rates at the begining of 2005: 1USD 27 UY, then the 100 pesos was 3.70 dollars, and now the same item would have a dollar price of 126/20 6.3 dollars... So it looks like it is almost twice the price but the price has only increased a 26 % due inflation in the currency of the country, but the exchange rate changed, it gaves a wider USD increase.. What happens is that Uruguay uses dollars to trade houses, but the prices are basically determined by salaries or other income wich is in Pesos for most of the people..and this creates this situation...I reckon there is inflation, but not as big as it seems measured in USD... Also we have to remember the inflation in USD around the world..but i didn t want to complicate things further... Regards Martin youtube downloader , youtube downloader to mp3 , youtube downloader |
Comment #911/15/10 18:30Rural east Colonia departmento | "No arguments from me."
I'd be first to agree that ROU property prices were still depressed from the 2001/2 crisis 4 years ago and the demise of the US dollar/other northern currencies adds to the overall effect. When I first arrived 1 GBP = 49 $UY. At its worst 1 GBP = 28 $UY... which is a hell of a pay-cut if most of your income is in GBPs :-) As for the rapidly rising prices... we have quite a large inflow of farmers and retired people coming from Argentina because of our agricultural infrastructure/lack of export levies and our local expertise in care for the elderly so that would account for some of the demand. I also reckon that the rapidly increasing building costs are helping to drive prices upwards. In the course of building/rebuilding my house over a 30 month period, labour costs (not just wages) rose by 29% and materials by 62%... both in pesos uruguayos. East Colonia is a farming area where most crops are bought for US dollars so the dollar is in general circulation here for any higher priced items. As a result house, car and land prices are "thought of" in dollars rather than in pesos. Strange to say many US products available here cost much the same in dollars as they did three years ago. Obviously, my experiences are local as I've no idea about prices in far away places like MVD. BTW my neighbour Roberto tells me that he visited MVD in 1968 but he didn't like it. :-) |
| "Some play with numbers. "
Martin, good analysis. One is still used to have the dollar as a constant value and the last years have proved that that is a wrong concept. For local (UY), global and domestic (US) reasons, the dollar has been losing value against the peso. It has to be seen yet where this process ends, cause the "war of courrencies" is evolving these days and the peso will fly as a leaf moved by the strong winds coming from the USA, Europe, China and Brazil. The situation should be clearer in less than a year. During a courrency crisis like this one, people rush for land and bricks, because it's generally seen as safe in the long term. The problem is that this is not always true in the short or medium term, since when the rush happens, a lot of people buy just to get rid of money which value is uncertain. But at the end of a Real State rush, there always have to be real people wanting to really live in the houses or appartments, and real farmers wanting to really exploit the land. Otherwise, the prices will fall down. |
Comment #1111/16/10 17:06Rural east Colonia departmento | "Spot on."
"During a courrency crisis like this one, people rush for land and bricks, because it's generally seen as safe in the long term. The problem is that this is not always true in the short or medium term, since when the rush happens, a lot of people buy just to get rid of money which value is uncertain."A very good point... especially wrt houses and apartments. I reckon the rise in farmland values is also being driven by the very high prices we are seeing for most cereals and soya. 8k U$S per hectare makes no sense for dairy production but with soya's Chicago price higher than 1300 U$S a ton, the return on capital is good (weather and local markets permitting) :-) |
| "Back to the topic"
The original article seemed to be about foreigners being taken advantage... which is a bit different than the general issues of property and currency values...Expert Page: Quick Tips for Getting Settled in Uruguay |
| "Back to the topic."
Guilty, Your Honour! Anyway, it's a way want-to-be expats begin to know the culture. When you start a conversation in Uruguay, you never know where and at what time it would end. Irish contributions to our culture don't seem to make us stay on focus, either. :-))) But, OK, I'll do my best. |
| "Let's start with Alberto then!"
Alberto, do you think Uruguayans are generally looking to take advantage of foreigners, or do you think Uruguayans generally treat foreigners the same as other Uruguayans?Expert Page: Quick Tips for Getting Settled in Uruguay |
Comment #1511/17/10 08:58Rural east Colonia departmento | "Just as guilty."
I'll join Alberto in the dock :-) |
| "Starting with me."
I think that, as a general rule, Uruguayans will treat anybody the same (generally honest) way. This is particularly true for well established agents. I mean, long established Real State agents, shops, etc.. That may not be because we are very good people; it may be because there are good commercial reasons for that. Uruguay is a small market, with very stable commercial links and long time participants. Everybody knows everybody else, and the "good name" of an agent is a value that still counts. That said, as in everywhere else, sellers (specially Real State or car sellers) will always highlight the good things and minimize the bad things of what they are trying to sell. But just make the wise questions that you would ask at your home country and you'll most probably get honest answers. Also, there's always people that goes out of the general rule. Oportunists exist, and though they may be a few, those few will be alert to detect a convenient target. A foreigner coming to buy property with little information is one of those targets. If you are not sure, and want to avoid any problems you may do the following: - Try to stick to well established agents, known in the market. - Visit the property. Observe the sanitary installations. If the money to be invested justifies it, hire an architect. - Observe the sorroundings; visit it alone and ask the neighbours, many people would be nice enough to tell you their opinion. - If it's an apartment, I would try to visit it at night too, just in case the neighbour above you is an amateur rocker. - Always hire an escribano. He/she will tell you his/her opinion about the price, and will check all the papers and registries for irregular things or hiden debpts. I admit that, except for the escribano hiring that every Uruguayan will see as a must, I'm not that paranoic when I had to buy property. |
| "I concur"
I generally agree with Alberto in what I have seen and experienced. There are always exceptions.I wanted to rent an apartment and the ower jacked up the price US$50/month when I said I was interested. Immediately I was NOT interested and then found a much better apartment which was US$50 a month less! I think one difference between here and say Costa Rica is that a culture of overcharging gringos never developed. In Costa Rica it seems that Americans will happily pay a taxi driver that overcharges them 2 or 3 times the official fare, and then thanks them and on top of it give a generous tip! In Costa Rica I think it is the exception when Americans are treated fairly. In Uruguay I think it is the exception when they are not. Expert Page: Quick Tips for Getting Settled in Uruguay |
Comment #1811/17/10 11:23Rural east Colonia departmento | "So do I."
"In Uruguay I think it is the exception when they are not."I'd agree. It may be that I've been lucky but during the last four years I have only experienced one attempted rip-off and that was more because I'm viewed as rich rather than foreign. It was from a former employee who was sacked by my construction contractor. He fell on hard times and was influenced by a union lawyer (on a 50% commission) who tried to blackmail myself and my contractor for 180k pesos because he thought I hadn't paid the BPS their outrageous charges wrt building my house. I went to see the lawyer, showed him the BPS receipt for 20k U$S and we settled for a 5k peso bung. :-) Compared with the UK, Spain and Thailand I reckon that the general levels of ripping off foreigners here is low. |
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