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'Election day.' Politics

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Election day.


Forum Post
10/21/09 06:34
Rural east Colonia departmento

Election day.

Thank author of this post/commentThe political campaigning is over and next Sunday is election day. In my view its been a rather negative campaign with much throwing of insults and little in the way of positive suggestions.

The polls indicate that there is a strong probability that "Pepe" Mujica will not achieve the necessary 50% plus one votes to win the presidency outright so there will probably be a run off ellection in November. However, Sunday's election will decide the deputies and intendentes.

There are also rwo referendum matters to be decided... whether to allow overseas Uruguayos to vote from overseas in future elections and whether to overturn the law which grants immunity to the various people who did bad things during the period of military rule in the 1970s and 80s.

I was surprised (and rather pleased) to hear Pepe say that he has no desire to fill the prisons with old age pensioners after all this time for crimes committed during the period of military rule as he himself suffered at the hands of the military. I also see that the polls indicate that a majority of Uruguayos agree with his point of view.

The legal arm of the state seems to want to reopen these matters as they view the current law of immunity as contrary to the constitutional concept of seperation of powers.

It will be interesting to see whether mercy or justice triumphs.


Comment #1
10/21/09 07:14
Ireland
Thank author of this post/comment"Ley de Impunidad"

Mercy? Really? This isn't the response I'd expect from a freedom fighter like yourself....

I know it was a long enough time ago for these politicians and members of the military to now be old age pensioners, but I'm sure that doesn't lighten the load of any of the people whose family members disappeared without a trace, or were brutally tortured without any form of redress or justice.

There was a huge march on 18 de Julio yesterday evening with all the people who will vote yes to overturn this law of immunity protecting these individuals.

I don't think its so much about throwing a collection of 60 and 70 year olds in jail. It is about revealing the truth, finding answers, allowing people whose mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, sisters, brothers, wives, husbands were just taken from their lives with no reason and no answer. Those people want/need closure - I think they deserve that much, no?


Comment #2
10/21/09 11:12
Montevideo
Thank author of this post/comment"Balancing the Past and the Future"

There may be a fine line between wallowing in the past and working productively toward the future.

Those who did wrong in the past should certainly not have impunity for their evil acts. However, we cannot spend so much effort on that to leave that we let the future take a wrong turn.

In the end, it is God that these "old age pensioners" shall have to answer to. It won't be long now and they'll get to feel the fires of Hell up close and personal.


Comment #3
10/22/09 08:14
Rural east Colonia departmento
Thank author of this post/comment"Resolving the past"

Perhaps I'm getting over-mellow in my old age :-)

I can well understand some peoples' need for justice/revenge. I lost a number of friends and relatives on both sides during the Irish struggles but it seems to me that when considering such things, the benefit of society in general should take preference over the needs and wishes of the individual... especially after such a long time. OTOH I wasn't involved in this particular bit of nastiness so I'm not qualified to judge.

While I'm not too keen on seeing long-delayed justice, I think it is important to disclose the truth so that subsequent generations know what really happened. In my view the best way to achieve such things is along the lines of South Africa's Truth and Reconcilliation Commission.


Comment #4
10/22/09 10:23
Ireland
Thank author of this post/comment"What kind of justice to seek..."

I see where you're coming from, and I don't think dredging up demons of the past and manipulating them as political weapons (as is so often done in Ireland, and also from what I have seen in Uruguay too) will serve anyone.

However this issue (the impunity law in Uruguay and the silence surrounding what happened to so many disappeared people) is something I am very interested in. I have seen many documentaries and seen some very powerful photo exhibits about those who have have lost friends, lovers, family members. I have even met some Uruguayans who lost family members and still to this day have no idea what happened to them - it doesn't matter how long ago it was, until they know it will stay this fresh memory and painful mystery.

I'm not out to get people thrown in jail, I think people have a right to know their history, and hopefully in that way justice will be served.

Here is a trailer for a documentary about this period of Uruguayan history that will be released next year, even without words it conveys the loss many people felt.


Comment #5
10/23/09 18:47
Rural east Colonia departmento
Thank author of this post/comment"Solutions"

Its always a problem to decide the best way of clearing up the mess after a period of civil conflict. On the one hand you have the Spanish approach of completely ignoring what went before and on the other, the Soviet death camps for everyone remotely involved with the "wrong" side.

IMV the south African approach of disclosure in exchange for impunity is the best way to go.

As I understand it, here we have a number of the politicians and leading military responsible for the nastiness already banged up in jail (including "Pedro's" dad) with the rest "let off" under the law of impunity. Since then several of the non-jailed former military have given information about what happened to some of the disappeared and it looks like these whould be liable to be jailed if the law was repealed.

It seems to me that repealing the law of impunity would cause anyone in the know to button their lips for ever... which would ensure that no further information would be forthcoming. Repeal of the law might also expose former Tupamaros to charges.

Raking over cooling ashes can be dangerous.


Comment #6
10/25/09 22:56
Rural east Colonia departmento
Thank author of this post/comment"The election process"

I'm not an ROU voter yet but hope to be one in 5 years time. Voting systems interest me as I have personal experience with what I consider to be the worst (England) and the best (Ireland) voting systems on the planet so on Sunday afternoon I took myself off to Valdense and asked a friend to escort me through the process.

The ROU uses a proportional representational party list system and each party provides a number of different lists to allow the voters to show preference for particular deputies and senators who get elected at the same time as the presidential candidates. There were also two referendum questions to be voted upon.

I was very impressed by the degree of security exhibited in treble checking the identity and voting credentials of each voter, the careful validation of each voting envelope, the "secret rooms" where each voter selected and enveloped his/her vote, the secrecy of the vote ensuring that each ballot could not be identified back to the voter and especially the weighty objects placed on top of each voting "urn" to prevent people from slipping in an extra vote when nobody was looking.

Valdense has just under 4000 voters and each voter has a number printed on his/her voting credentials. There were 8 sets of 3 funcionarios supervising the process with 8 voting "urns." Each set of funcionarios administered a certain set of voters numbers (1 to 500, 501 to 1001, 1002 to 1501 etc) so the precise place where the voter voted depended on his/her number. 6 of the polling locations were in the primary school and the other two in the offices of the junta local.

The police and army were out in force as well as representatives of all the political parties to help ensure fair play.

While I still favour the Irish PR system as it allows the voter rather than the political parties to chose the order of the candidates, I was generally impressed by the conduct, security and the seriousness of all those taking part. I reckon that the ROU is well worthy of its ggg8 status.


Comment #7
10/26/09 07:08
Ireland
Thank author of this post/comment"Security in Uruguayan Elections"

I walked passed one of the locations where they count and secure the votes in Montevideo (in a Museum on Gonzalo Ramirez, I think its a Naval Museum I'm not sure)

But I have to say I was very impressed with their organization and professionalism (rare traits here in ROU!). It reflects very well on the country, and on South America as a whole (which usually gets an awful unfair rap for having farcical elections - US Presidential Elections in 2000? anyone?!)

I guess we'll be witnessing it all over again (maybe with more security!) in the second round since Pepe didn't get his 50%....


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